- Now it's Alvin Hooks's turn to cross-examine Hatsue. He questions why Hatsue hadn't told anyone that Carl and Kabuo had come to an agreement (prior to the discovery of the body, that is), and why Hatsue hadn't come forward (after the body was discovered) with the information she had about the dead battery and Kabuo's assistance to Carl Heine.
- She explains that they thought lying low—rather than rocking the boat (pardon the pun)—was the better move. After thoroughly trashing her reasoning for not coming forward, Hooks tells her she can step down.
- Hatsue wants to say more at that point, but the judge gets her off the stand before she can.
- Then, Nels Gudmundsson calls Josiah Gillanders, the president of the San Piedro Gill-Netters Association.
- Josiah tells the court how hard it would be for a fisherman to tie his boat up to another fisherman's vessel if both were not willing parties. Also, Josiah emphasizes that this situation would only occur in an emergency.
- Josiah then gives his thoughts about the meaning of all the batteries found on Carl's boat; his view is that Miyamoto's story rings true.
- Nels asks him to speak to the notion that Carl's "murder" was premeditated. Because of the impossibility of tying one's boat up to another forcibly (i.e., without the consent of the person piloting the other boat), Gillanders says that it was highly unlikely that anyone would have planned a murder that depended on doing that.
- Then, Alvin Hooks cross-examines Josiah. He gets Josiah to imagine a scenario in which Kabuo feigned an emergency to get Carl to tie up his boat to his, which would have allowed Kabuo to execute a premeditated plan to murder Carl. Josiah admits that this scenario is plausible but maintains that it isn't likely.